Top 7 football teams in the SJS

I want to start a poll using the top 7 teams in the Sac Joaquin Section.
I will start this off with St. Marys and Grant. What other 5 teams should I include in my poll ?

Merced, Pitman, and Turlock are always top teams. They play in a very tough conference and schedule top teams before league.

If you are going SJS as a whole and not by Division, I would have to put Merced and Central Catholic in the mix, because both these teams are always competitive year after year.

Granite Bay and Whitney

This poll will no doubt be slanted toward the privates because we all know the two catholic schools can RECRUIT!

Hooligan wrote:

This poll will no doubt be slanted toward the privates because we all know the two catholic schools can RECRUIT!

Hooligan, can you give us the names of the players that are current students (grades 9-11) at either of the two Catholic schools that you believe were recruited? I say 'believe' because if someone had proof,I would think that the CIF would be involved, and those students would not be playing.This subject comes up often, but, no one has named anyone that was truly recruited. I'm not trying to start anything, just asking.

aboutzkidz wrote:

Hooligan wrote:

This poll will no doubt be slanted toward the privates because we all know the two catholic schools can RECRUIT!

Hooligan, can you give us the names of the players that are current students (grades 9-11) at either of the two Catholic schools that you believe were recruited? I say 'believe' because if someone had proof,I would think that the CIF would be involved, and those students would not be playing.This subject comes up often, but, no one has named anyone that was truly recruited. I'm not trying to start anything, just asking.

I "believe" every student at private schools are recruited! (see at the end of my statement ).

That is why I "believe" they should be relegated to their own league and their own poll!

How did Oakdale get named on the poll? Did somebody nominate them? Pitman probably should have been the 7th team. They are constantly in the playoffs and play DI power schools. I don't see it changing this year, either.

C.C. is stacked this year. They only lose Orth and Santi (Both big Time players). Return a lot of experience and bring up a very talented Junior class. C.C. is not just stacked for a Small School, I predict they beat S.M. this year by at least 10pts. Should be playing in the State game in December.

Oakdale belongs at least on the top 10, they are returning 16 Starters. CC looks to have a big year in 2009.

Fan of the Game wrote:

How did Oakdale get named on the poll? Did somebody nominate them? Pitman probably should have been the 7th team. They are constantly in the playoffs and play DI power schools. I don't see it changing this year, either.

How does Pitman look this year? Fan of the Game

Oakdale is a good team, but for a top 5 or 7 with all the DI powerhouse schools out there is just stretching it a bit far. They are very good for their own division, though. Most schools would have a hard time with the likes of Grant, St. Marys, Lincoln, etc.

Pitman looked pretty good compared to the rest of the teams at the Pitman Camp a couple weeks ago. They have some size to them and looked solid this early in the off-season during the activities. What they always have going for them, though, is great coaching.

Merced is still the top dog in the CCC, but I think this is the year for Pitman to take it.

Fan of the Game wrote:

Oakdale is a good team, but for a top 5 or 7 with all the DI powerhouse schools out there is just stretching it a bit far. They are very good for their own division, though. Most schools would have a hard time with the likes of Grant, St. Marys, Lincoln, etc.

Pitman looked pretty good compared to the rest of the teams at the Pitman Camp a couple weeks ago. They have some size to them and looked solid this early in the off-season during the activities. What they always have going for them, though, is great coaching.

Merced is still the top dog in the CCC, but I think this is the year for Pitman to take it.

Fan,

I agree with your top 5 or 7 reply. Oakdale has been league champions and or contenders in THEIR league (VOL), theres no denying that. But to put them on this list with legit SJS D1 powerhouses and CC is just not believable. JMO

Oakdale lost to West of Tracy, who did not even make the playoffs in the TCAL. VOL and DI leagues are not comparable.

RUFKM wrote:

Oakdale lost to West of Tracy, who did not even make the playoffs in the TCAL. VOL and DI leagues are not comparable.

I agree 100%

Louis, strange things happen. McNair beat West. McNair lost to Sierra. Sierra lost to Oakdale.

Oakdale had 16 juniors that started in the West game. Oakdale lost their QB when they still had the lead.Oakdale beat Turlock by 4 touchdowns the year before and would have beat West by at least 2 in 2007.

Maybe it should have been worded a little different. Like top picks for the six divisions to win the playoffs. When has Pittman ever been considered for a state bowl game? Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FNL,

You just made a valid point about being a top SJS team and not being a top SJS team.

When there is a list (poll) of 7 top teams in the SJS or any section for that matter, they have to be teams that still manage to perform well and WIN when things get tough. No matter what the circumstances. JMO

barnburner wrote:

Maybe it should have been worded a little different. Like top picks for the six divisions to win the playoffs. When has Pittman ever been considered for a state bowl game? Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know what being considered for a state bowl has to do with this topic, but you're right. It probably should have been worded differently.

The fact of the matter is, though, that you really can't compare the teams from different divisions. DI has more enrollment allowing those teams more depth at each position. In general, you're going to have more power, speed and competition in each spot on the field. For the most part, when one man goes down, another can adequately step in. So since the poll was for best teams, that means head to head to me. And for the most part the top 2 teams from each conference in DI could beat the top 2 teams from the conferences in the other divisions. There are always going to be those times when DI loses to the other divisions, though.

And you have to agree, that winning 7 or more games consistently with post season appearances thrown in makes you a top team, if those games are against DI schools.

You're right, though. This is like comparing apples and oranges. All these teams mentioned are very good in there respective divisions.

Granite Bay is a D2 school. It has beaten grant and lost a playoff game this past season by one point to the state champs. d1, d2, d3 all non sense. Well run programs with excellent coachs are what makes a program not school size.....Allot of D1 schools don't want to play D3 or 7 schools. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain?

I remember Granite Bay... in the championship game. Like way back in 99, I think it was, Oakdale was driving, Luke Bell and Bobby Monges had the ball on the 1 yard line only like 2 points behind, I think..... and, 1 minute to go .... remind me FA, then a fumbled snap. Sure is strange how all these new "little" schools become so big after 1 year!

Granite Bay has it. Just like a few other teams. Then, there was realignment, I think! Never played again.

On the side, best game I ever saw was Oakdale beating Oakridge... both 10-0, Huge upset!! Back in the day of Malone. Even Cahisports was befuddled!

WHS wrote:

Granite Bay is a D2 school. It has beaten grant and lost a playoff game this past season by one point to the state champs. d1, d2, d3 all non sense. Well run programs with excellent coachs are what makes a program not school size.....Allot of D1 schools don't want to play D3 or 7 schools. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain?

WHS, No disrespect, but I have to agree to disagree with you on this one. First, lets say you have 2 schools (1 large 1 small )with the same coaching caliber and system. There is no way the school with half the enrollment (except private schools) has the capability of filling quality depth better than the larger school that have more enrollment. You have to give the starters a break during the game. That's seems to be what happens when smaller schools don't have the depth (quality)and try and play the starters a full 4 quarters and let them burnout midway through the 4th when the game is on the line. And second, you have to be able to fill in for injuries (which seem to always happen at the worst times). The more enrollment , the larger the depth/quality pool gets to choose from. And if I am wrong , I apologize and please feel free to correct me. JMO

I do agree the D1 schools have nothing to gain by playing down. JMO

So are they combining DI and DII in the same playoffs? This will settle much of the debating come November.

I still feel the top teams in any division can compete with anyone. The depth of DI 3rd-6th place teams are far superior to the DV league 3rd-8th place leagues.

Top Teams for THIS year in no particular order:

St. Mary's
Grant
Manteca
Tracy (lots of returners)
Escalon
West
Oakdale
Laguna Creek (darkhorse team)
Turlock
Lincoln
Central Catholic

I was going to interject here and add my 2 cents then I remembered it was I who picked the SJ Sharks to win the Stanley cup.. Never again!

BeenAround wrote:
"Louis, strange things happen. McNair beat West. McNair lost to Sierra. Sierra lost to Oakdale."

and let's not forget Sierra beat Manteca so it's all just speculation and conjecture at this early point of the 2009 season.

WO,

I hear that point of view all the time but the fact is D2 is better than D1 in the SJS the past few seasons. Grant is a D2 school so in your profile how do they do it every year? Granite Bay is D2. The only team on that list that would run with them is Grant.

In Whit's case I am so sick of hearing they are a D4 school and wouldn't be very good in the SFL (D2). Being a looonng time South Placer resident I know allot of kids in the area. The very same kids that played at Whitney played youth ball with the kids at DO, Rocklin, Roseville, GB and so on and won. Now everyone wants to say they are infearior bc they go to Whitney but if they played at one of these other schools they would be just fine. Hogwash.... Coach Geminez has a very detailed program up and running and in due time will show the SFL who can play.

Casa Robles was 13-0 last season and would have been a better pick than SM. never got the chance as politics got in the way. 11-3 squad got picked over two 13-0 teams. Going undefeated and winning your section wasn't considered, SM is connected...

I can tell you Gaffney would never have run on Casa or Whitney like that. As far as offense both are spread schools with explosive backs and Whit had the O MVP in Zack Graves.

To much credence gets put on schoolsize. I undertand the numbers game and the odds it favors larger school but great programs can eualize allot of the advantage. Look at CN or CC. They can run with the big boys?

WHS wrote:

WO,

I hear that point of view all the time but the fact is D2 is better than D1 in the SJS the past few seasons. Grant is a D2 school so in your profile how do they do it every year? Granite Bay is D2. The only team on that list that would run with them is Grant.

The fact is, I hear the same replies and they always come from the smaller schools who think they can compete with D1 schools because they win a game once in awhile or come close to beating a D1 school.

The best thing about a forum is you can read everyones opinion and give your own. (RIGHT OR WRONG)

Grant wins a game once in a while? Beats anyone who will dare.

Granite Bay: wins once in a while? probably the best coached program in the section. Didn't they beat D1 Vacaville in preseason?

Del Oro? They like to say...anyone, anytime,anywhere..Has beaten D1 NU, Elk Grove and SM in consectutive years. In a rare down year came very close to beating the best team D1 Merced has had in years.

Casa Robles was 13-0 and SM got the nod?

Whitney:D4 (13-0) school hammered D1 Valley 54-0? Beat D3 Woodland 28-12. Walked all over D1 Sheldon the year before?


Sure it is always the smaller school that says something bc the D1 don't have anything to say. They lose to these so called inferior schools? There is a reason they don't like to schedule them up?

I agree on the forum. Justifing my thoughts!

WHS,

I hope you don't think i'm trying to knock down any teams, because i'm not. I respect every team and the hard work that is put in year after year.

But you always name the same teams Grant, Granite Bay, Del Oro, Whitney, Casa Robles. (all great teams)

What about the REST of the teams in their respective divisions and leagues that don't get your recognition ?

Yea, THOSE teams, Not just the few elite you mention all the time.

I don't have to mention any teams wins and records because everyone knows who they are and how consistent they are year after year, not just certain years and certain games.

We can debate this forever, but the fact remains that the majority of D1 teams still have more depth to choose from than the majority of D2 and lower teams, minus the private D1 and lower schools.

It's nobodys fault, it's just the way it is. JMO

Wo,

I am enjoyning the debate with you. I understand you are not knocking these programs. I can continue naming schools that are D2 or less that compete yearly with the D1 schools. Oakridge, Del Campo, Rocklin, Roseville, Colfax, Cordova in years past, Burbank, Ponderosa of late, Oakdale, Sonora, Manteca, Sonora, Sierra and the list goes on.

Now I can go off on D1 schools who are terrible at football and there are quite a few. All divisions have bottom feeders. I hope that is not what you are inferring about "other" schools

I only mention the few bc they regularly beat the top D1 schools each preseason. the Sac Bee and NCP have had this debate several times. In fact the Bee thinks D2 has better teams than D1. The SFL being the toughest league of them all and it is D2.

Don't get me wrong I understand your point and it makes sense just by numbers and the odds projected. My point is good coaching and solid values in a program can elevate its play above it's division. The programs I have named are my justification of it's being so.